Does anyone have any real life experience with the Banks Horsepower improvement kit on a 2000 350HP Cummings??

I was on a waiting list for the Banks kit when it was first developed for the ISC and had what was one of the first ones installed. It's a great improvement and makes driving much safer when you are better able to accelerate and merge with traffic.

Chuck

Amy,

I'm guessing you have the ISC engine. I installed a Banks TLC kit on a 1999 Cummins ISB engine, which at that time was rated at 275HP and, Like Chuck just said, it gave me tremendous improvements in acceleration when merging into traffic - also for passing on hills. I don't know what improvments you'd get on the ISC, but I certainly experienced every bit of the claims that Banks published for the ISB engine. The addition of the Banks kit did not result in any loss of overall fuel efficiency.

Here is some information that I posted about it at the time, including some "before and after" numbers.

Amy,
I installed the Banks on my 99 Dynasty ISC 350 back in 2005. What a difference and no drop in fuel mileage. Back then, when they first made one for the ISC, they were $3000, including the optional turbo housing. With my new ISL 400, I just have take it easy. I traded more creature features for the power of the last coach. Choices, choices.

quote:

Originally posted by Amy Ann:
Does anyone have any real life experience with the Banks Horsepower improvement kit on a 2000 350HP Cummings??

Before you spend the money, consider that HP simply determines speed capability and do you really need to go faster than the existing engine will propel you? Two times speed uses 8 times the horsepower and that transfers to your MPG usage. Most folks are looking at slowing down to conserve fuel with diesel heading to something in area of $1 per mile for m0st rigs i.e they get 7-8 MPG and diesel will probably hit $8 per gallon in the not too distant future.

quote:

Before you spend the money, consider that HP simply determines speed capability and do you really need to go faster than the existing engine will propel you?

Leo,

I don't have a complete understanding of engine dynamics and power curves, but my observations, after adding a Banks kit, tell me that there's more to them than the simple ratio between HP and speed. When I installed the Banks TLC kit on the ISB in my '99 Discovery, I wasn't looking for more highway speed. What mostly drove me to add the kit was the improved acceleration. Without the kit the motorhome took painfully long getting up to speed. I had too many uncomfortably close calls, while trying to re-enter traffic from a rest stop along the side of the highway.

After the addition of the kit, the time it took me to accelerate from a stop to highway speed (as measured by my "before and after" test runs) improved by 25%, which I thought was fairly significant. As an "added bonus" I could climb hills significantly better. On the open highway, however, the kit made no discernible difference at all, which was fine with me because I didn't need or want to go any faster once the motor home was already traveling down the road. Most importantly, and to my pleasant surprise, fuel economy (mpg figures) remained essentially the same before and after the kit. The little bit of extra fuel the kit allowed out of the gate or on the hills, was negligible at the end of the trip.

I don't know how the Banks kit was able to give me that improved performance without costing me extra fuel. I always suspected that it had to do with the control unit which was part of the kit. Among other things, it monitored the EGT and would actually cut back on the fuel flow, once the EGT reached a pre-set limit. I also think that the increased amount of ram air the kit allowed aided the end results as well. But again, I don't really know why the kit worked so well and so efficiently. I only know the results I was able to measure on paper. For me, the addition of the kit accomplished what I was looking for, and didn't cost me any more in fuel. I couldn't have asked for more.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Robin_M,

Mr Ecker.....have you done the Banks Modification and what was your result?

Amy Ann is looking for "real life experience" with the Banks Kit. So to help her with your answer........My father put one on his coach. His fuel mileage did not really change. However the extra power that was available to use was worth the upgrade.

I am considering the same kit on my 330.

More power is always useful, throttle control that is the answer.

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Originally posted by Robin_M:

quote:

Before you spend the money, consider that HP simply determines speed capability and do you really need to go faster than the existing engine will propel you?

Leo,

I don't have--------------------

I won't argue with improved performance from Banks. Years ago I was a supporter of Banks vs competition (and still am) because they focused on improved air flow vs over fueling focus of competition. All I'm saying is is that this is an expensive option and one ought to think about whether the performance is a need and does it make sense in today's environment. I too had a 99 Discovery and I lived in the mountains of UT at 7000 ft at nearly the summit of Parley's on I-80. I drove steep mountain (6-7%) roads out of necessity and yes I was somewhat slower than a Banks unit on hill but it was not excessively so; I routinely passed 18 wheelers and other RV's. Over 80,000 miles in 5 years criss crossing the US (both E-W and N-S) several times annually, I never felt that I needed more power vs like to have more power. However, those likes disappeared in moments as soon as the grade eased and my speed was able to increase and I was back doing the legal 75 or so liking the 11MPG I was getting from my stock engine.

I did not have a Banks but a couple of our Discovery owners (DOAI) did and one failed. Banks pointed to Cummins and Cummins said no way. Cummins ran a through review at my request after the guy was at wits end trying to get Banks to pay and they confirmed that the failure was not their responsibility. What ever one thinks the end result was he had to pony up $8000 to repair.

This brings up another point. Banks does a lot to try to eliminate any possibility that an engine can be damaged by their system;I'm not challenging them. However, one should realize RV engines are highly stressed. The engine ratings take into account that the duty cycle in an RV is low so one can give it a higher rating. For example, a certain engine in a vocational application might be rated 350 HP while in an RV be rated 400 HP. The point is one might be pushing the engine too hard. The 1999 ISB is a case in point. It came out at 260 then 275 HP but marketing at the motor home manufacturers wanted to be able say 300HP; the HP race was on (and arguably still is- as this thread would indicate). Therefore, the chassis builder FCCC asked Cummins to up rate the ISB to 300HP which they did. FCCC found that they had to add a more robust radiator and drive shaft for just this 25 HP addition. Then Cummins discovered the block wasn't up to the task and they called a halt to upgrading the 275 and quickly redesigned and produced a more robust block and then re-released an ISB 300.

Another important issue to consider it the transmission. You can exceed the rated torque with the highes upgrade from many aftermarket systems. Be sure you dont overpower the rest of the drivetrain!

Robin - I accidentally deleted your message. If you have copy please repost. Sorry.

Well... I hope you at least read it first.

quote:

Originally posted by Robin_M:
Well... I hope you at least read it first.

Yes and even made a reply that I lost as well. Basically I noted that change in drive shaft occurred in late 2000. I was at FCCC in November 2000 discussing this with their CS manager and the responsible engineer. I had changed my motor home engine only in October and then went to factory to discuss the change. It was there that we discussed what needed to be done to make it a viable package. My unit ran a little hotter without the radiator change. The drive shaft was a concern for wheel slip (oil to dry)and I thought I could risk it. So, I drove it probably 60,000 mile w/o apparent problem.

Your comments are starting to ring some bells. I had thought I had the beefier drive shaft, but maybe not, since my D was made in summer of '98. However, I never had a problem in all the years I drove with the Banks kit installed. There was a lot of discussion on these issues on IDMC forum at the time. But all that was before I turned 60. Now I don't remember many of the details.

quote:

Before you spend the money, consider that HP simply determines speed capability and do you really need to go faster than the existing engine will propel you? Two times speed uses 8 times the horsepower and that transfers to your MPG usage. Most folks are looking at slowing down to conserve fuel with diesel heading to something in area of $1 per mile for m0st rigs i.e they get 7-8 MPG and diesel will probably hit $8 per gallon in the not too distant future.


Leo
06 Dutch Star 4023
Cummins ISL 400
Spartan MM GT

...and that's not why you have an ISL 400? Guess you aren't using the 400HP?

I have a Banks system which I will install next week. I don't have actual experience with it yet however I decided to buy it after talking personally with 10+ current owners. There was not a one who regretted it and all felt they were getting real benefit in terms of a more responsive and safe coach and better speeds while towing a toad up the mountains. All said they would do it again. Several had 70k+ miles since install and most had at least 30k. None had experienced any problems and all had nothing but good things to say about Banks support.

I also had the full Banks system installed at their factory in early 2005. VERY satisfied, great performance & milage. They say if you drive like before the upgrade MPG will be about the same or better, if you drive like you CAN, MPG will suffer. For me it is not a matter of racing to the top of the hill (just staying out of the way) or running 75/85 miles an hr, which it will do, but being able to move & merge with the trafic when required. With diesel at $5+ I intend to be even more conservat then in the past, anyway with a Toad I am only legal to 55.