Hi All,

The newer Cummins Engines have a Red ELC
cooant that does not require the DCA
chemical to be added/checked. Also
the water filter is no longer pre-charged
with DCA.

Where can one purchase this and under what
brand name???

Bruce
07 Essex 4502

The coolant (if you have the label that says so on your coolant tank) is called "Final Charge Global ELC." According to Final Charge web site it does NOT need SCAs and only needs an extender added at 300,000miles/3years. It is important to note that "red stuff" is NOT "red stuff" when it comes to Final Charge - do NOT contaminate Final Charge (though there is about a 25% tolerance level) with regular "red stuff".

Where to buy it? I have found "Final Charge Global ELC" in a 50/50 mix at MANY Wal-Marts across the country for $10/gal believe it or not! You may need to try several stores to find it. Other than that it is very difficult to find. I have found the undiluted version for about $15/gal at Interstate Turbo in Denver CO. 303-288-1166. I have looked at many other truck parts places to no avail.

Yes, Spartan confirms that the coolant filter is a "dummy" in that it contains no additives and so says on the can itself. The engine coolant filter is a Fleetguard WF2077 but given it really is a nothing filter I used a cheaper WIX 24070.

quote:

Originally posted by RVDude:
The coolant (if you have the label that says so on your coolant tank) is called "Final Charge Global ELC." According to Final Charge web site it does NOT need SCAs and only needs an extender added at 300,000miles/3years. It is important to note that "red stuff" is NOT "red stuff" when it comes to Final Charge -

______________________________________________
Final Charge Global ELC is RED as are all OAT technology coolants made by the various manufacturers. It is the only coolant where color is standardized. You may mix any of the OAT's from Fleetguard, Shell, etc. I have never seen these coolants sold at places like WalMart or even truck stops to any degree. The volume of usage is so low as to make them uneconomical to stock. I buy Rotella ELC at major boat yards or Fleetguard at Cummins Distributor under their ES Optimax name. However, one does have to be careful because this is widely mis-understood by these folks and others. If it isn't RED its not ELC is one starting point for checking.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ecker,

According to Final Charge ecker is correct that an OAT fluid is fully compatible with Final Charge. Per the web site
"With FINAL CHARGE Coolant's patented formula, you can convert a truck using a heavy-duty OAT coolant without having to drain, flush and refill the cooling system. For vehicles already using another brand of heavy-duty OAT coolant, simply begin and continue fulfilling all top off requirements with FINAL CHARGE Coolant. From the time when you started topping off the cooling system with FINAL CHARGE Coolant, you should realize an additional 600,000 miles of on-road use (6 years or 12,000 hours of off-highway use) without the use of Supplemental Coolant Additives (SCAs), with the addition of FINAL CHARGE Extender at 300,000 to 400,000 miles of on-road use (3 years or 6,000 hours of off-road use), in a properly maintained cooling system. The addition of FINAL CHARGE Converter is not required."

I can not comment on the fact that All reds are OAT fluids - I think there are red fluids available at auto stores for cars that are not OAT based, I'll go look. And then there is the whole possible Dex-Cool (a red OAT that allegedly likes to clog and eat) debacle. This paper explains the coolant color dilemma and potential inconsistencies, even with red or red/orange and whether they are OAT or NOAT or HOAT or IAT or otherwise but all of the same color.

Yes, I have bought Final Charge personally at Wal-Marts in several states and seen it in some dozen states or so. Unbelievable but true. Why a Wal-Mart would carry this exceedingly low volume item is beyond me. But it is positively available at many stores!

Certainly, my point is to eliminate complications in RV ownership (i.e. is a red really a red type of problems). If the exact product specified by the manufacturer is available as easily as many Wal-Marts, why not use the exact product... I know, I know, this is another one of those religious topics... Let's have fun out there!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RVDude,

quote:

Originally posted by RVDude:
According to Final Charge ecker is correct that an OAT fluid is fully compatible with Final Charge. Per the web site
"With FINAL CHARGE Coolant's patented formula, you can convert a truck using a heavy-duty OAT coolant without having to drain, flush and refill the cooling system. For vehicles already using another brand of heavy-duty OAT coolant, simply begin and continue fulfilling all top off requirements with FINAL CHARGE Coolant. From the time when you started topping off the cooling system with FINAL CHARGE Coolant, you should realize an additional 600,000 miles of on-road use (6 years or 12,000 hours of off-highway use) without the use of Supplemental Coolant Additives (SCAs), with the addition of FINAL CHARGE Extender at 300,000 to 400,000 miles of on-road use (3 years or 6,000 hours of off-road use), in a properly maintained cooling system. The addition of FINAL CHARGE Converter is not required."

I can not comment on the fact that All reds are OAT fluids - I think there are red fluids available at auto stores for cars that are not OAT based, I'll go look. This paper explains the coolant cooler dilemma and potential inconsistencies, even with red or red/orange and whether they are OAT or NOAT or HOAT or IAT or otherwise but all of the same color.

Yes, I have bought Final Charge personally at Wal-Marts in several states and seen it in some dozen states or so. Unbelievable but true. Why a Wal-Mart would carry this exceedingly low volume item is beyond me. But it is positively available at some stores!

Certainly, my point is to eliminate complications in RV ownership (i.e. is a red really a red type of problems). If the exact product specified by the manufacturer is available as easily as many Wal-Marts, why not use the exact product... I know, I know, this is another one of those religious topics... Let's have fun out there!

Spartan used Shell Rotella ELC OAT coolant prior to switching to Final Charge Global so if one is trying to use whatever was in there from day 1 it can be one or the other. Despite the verbage on web sites all OAT technology coolants are the same. There may well be a red automotive coolant because their are no stds for coolant. The point is if the shop starts to add pink or blue etc you know its wrong and need tp stop them.

I thought newer Cummins engines didn't have coolant filters. When I bought my 2005 Dutch Star with a Cummins ISL engine I noticed it had no coolant filter so I contacted both Spartan and Cummins. They both told me Cummins eliminated the filter in 2005 engines. Did they start installing them again?

My 2007 K2 w/ISM has a "NO SCA" coolant filter per the part numbers in my first post.

quote:

My 2007 K2 w/ISM has a "NO SCA" coolant filter per the part numbers in my first post.

Everything I can find states the ISLs with extended life coolant do NOT have coolant filters.

RV Dude is correct in that the best place to find Final Charge Global is at some Walmarts. Last year when the coach was new, I tried to obtain this product and several other fluids, filters, etc. in the event I might have an emergency. I contacted a Spartan service center, a Cummins service center, and a couple of Newmar dealers attempting to get a gallon or so. No luck. Old World Industries kept stating that I would find it at Walmart... then I found out it was only at some of them.

By the way, I am sure glad I chased some down as I burst a radiator hose off the interstate outside of Chicago. The mobile repair service of course had nothing even close to Final Charge. I try to buy the prediluted gallons for convenience.

quote:

Originally posted by cwg:
RV Dude is correct in that the best place to find Final Charge Global is at some Walmarts. Last year when the coach was new, I tried to obtain this product and several other fluids, filters, etc. in the event I might have an emergency. I contacted a Spartan service center, a Cummins service center, and a couple of Newmar dealers attempting to get a gallon or so. No luck. Old World Industries kept stating that I would find it at Walmart... then I found out it was only at some of them.

By the way, I am sure glad I chased some down as I burst a radiator hose off the interstate outside of Chicago. The mobile repair service of course had nothing even close to Final Charge. I try to buy the prediluted gallons for convenience.

If one can get it at a Walmart fine but there is no necessity to bypass other sources of identical coolant that might be more convenient like Fleetguard ES Optimax ELC at the Cummins dealers.

So, on my ISC this would be a compatable coolant with my SCA charged coolant?

RicksDP,
1. What color is the coolant in your coach?
2. Are you looking to change the coolant completely or are you adding coolant to maintain the proper level?

I think the short answer is no. Coolant requiring SCAs is not compatable with Final Charge.

quote:

Originally posted by RicksDP:
So, on my ISC this would be a compatable coolant with my SCA charged coolant?

---------------------------------------------
Not sure what you mean by compatible. The SCA coolant can be mixed with the OAT coolant but over ~25% dilution it will destroy the OAT and then one must start to add SCA's. On the other hand, kits are sold that can be used to convert SCA coolant vehicles over to OAT. However, this would seemingly only make financial sense for vehicles that are going to be driven very high mileage.

I have the same question. I have the green stuff in mine and while it looks and feels good, I have yet to check the SCA level. I need to get a test kit and I believe my C8.3 has a coolant filter.

If I were to change it (it appears to be around 11 gallons), would I just get a new filter with the SCA's built in and then use standard green coolant in a 50/50 mix or do I get a non-SCA filter and do the SCA package to the coolant first?

I also need to try and find the block drains, if any, and are there issues re: burping out all the air or is it a simple matter of adding , waiting until the unit comes up to temp so the thermostat opens and then keep adding until it looks topped off?

Besides, I think there is some info re: adding only 100% coolant to the expansion tank so where/how do you fill the sysem?

I spoke at length to Spartan about changing coolant. To put it simply: do not put red in a green system. You can't just drain out the green and replace with red without chaning the level sensors. Doing the change without a sensor change might have you broke down along the road as the system thinks it is out of coolant. Talk to Spartan if you really want to make the change and consider having it done at a service center.
Changing old green for new is easy. Just open the drain at the bottom of the radiator and open the cap on the expansion tank. Do a flush and good drain on the radiator. You can fill the entire system through the expansion tank opening and the system will remove all air bubbles itself as it idles at temp. Scott Brady from Spartan said you can just add to that expansion tank and everything will be fine. I did mine last month and no problems. I did use the concentrate and distilled but you could use the green pre-mix with SCA added. I was told to do that and to add a 4 unit SCA coolant filter as well. I test mine regularly and am right in the zone after a 2,400 mile cross country trip.