JDT,
First of all I want to say thank you for writing this. It made me rethink and actually calculate the concentration levels of the coolant.
When I took my old coolant to a radiator shop to dispose of it I took a sample of the new out of the radiator drain. I had the radiator shop test it. He said I was good down to -25 degrees. Unfortunately he couldn't tell me my concentration level.
Here is my procedure and results. If you see anything in error then please let me know.
I could not get all of the flush water out. The most I could measure out was 32 quarts of the 39 quarts the manual says that are in the system. It was pretty consistent each time I drained.
When I poured in the new coolant I added 7 gallons or 28 quarts. I left plenty of room between the min and max lines on the coolant recovery tank in case when I ran the engine it sent a bunch back so I wouldn't overflow the tank. I have room for at least another gallon before I get to the max line. This plus what I actually measured out is how I arrived at the 32 quarts removed. Remember this is assuming there is actually a 39 quart capacity and where do they measure from. The minimum line or the maximum line. I don't know but its all we have to go on.
Bear with me on this. Right now with the 28 quarts in the system I am at 64 % water and 36 % coolant. 28 quarts of coolant is half water with the 50/50 mix so thats 14 quarts plus the capacity of the system 39 quarts minus the 28 added leaves 11 hpothetical quarts of water in the system that didn't drain out for a total of 25 quarts of water of the total 39. If I'm doing the math right then thats 64 % water and 36% coolant. If I add and additional gallon then my percentage should be 59% water and 41% coolant. Obviously thats not 50/50 where I want to be. My only option at this point is to add a gallon of the concentrated final charge and this will put me at 53% water and 47% coolant which is within the range final charge says you should be at.
I hope all of this is clear to you.
To make a long story short I think you are doing the right thing by going with the concentrate. I know it will be a pain for you to drive that far to get the concentrated stuff. Looks like I may be doing the same because I'm not driving the motorhome to far without having the concentration closer to where its supposed to be.
As far as your thermostat replacement I guess you will have to be the judge of that. I will tell you I had a few qualms about replacing it before I did it. After wards I felt like it wasn't that big of a deal and although the old thermostat wasn't horribly bad it did look a little corroded or had some buildup on it. If it goes well you will be glad you did it. If it goes bad then you will probably kick yourself and have a few choice words for me.
Once again thank you for the correspondence on this matter as it did indeed make me think it through some more.
By the way I did look for some block drains that supposedly you can unscrew and drain any water out of the block but I didn't see any easily accesible and it kind made me feel uneasy about taking them out if I had found them.
Good luck on your changeout and let me know how it went.
Letsgoagain

Letsgoagain, yes, what you said does make sense. That's why I did make the trip for the concentrate. It was overpriced a little but I really don't time to mess around as we leave early Saturday morning for a 2000 mile round trip to Colorado, which includes a 12,000 foot pass. I need to get it right the first time.

I decided not to do the thermostat right now based on what the Cummins tech told me. I would have had to make another 120 mile round trip in another direction to get one.

By the way, you may want to check a NAPA store if you have them. The concetrate is a stock item in some stores. One store much closer offered to get if for me within 48 hours but I couldn't wait.

Jim

JDT,
Thanks for the tip on NAPA although none of them in my area had it. You would think this stuff is liquid gold as hard as it is to find. I must have called every auto parts and truck place in Evansville until I remembered having a converstation a while back with a parts guy at the one I hadn't called. Remarkably he has both the concentrated and premixed. He set me back two gallons of the concentrate which I will pick up.
You are right this stuff is pricey. $21.00 a gallon.
By the way, if you don't mind me asking where are you headed in Colorado?

Letsgoagain, I did the change but took me most of the day, most of it waiting for a little cool down and draining. I did 3 flushes, like you, and was satisfied everything was clear after the 3rd one. I was a tad concerned that there was some residual sodium carbonate left but just didn't have time to do another flush. I don't think it will hurt anything. I was able to get 19 1/2 quarts of the anti-freeze plus 3 gal of water in the system, which puts it between the minimum and max line.

I took it for about a 15 mile highway drive and the temp stayed at about 180-190 on my guage, which is a little below where it did run on a hot day. I had a Horton 2 speed fan installed after we bought the coach so mine does run a little hotter on the low fan speed. The high speed does not kick in until the temp hits 205 then cycles down at 180 or 190, can't remember.

We are going to Ouray with some friends of ours who have a fifth wheel. We are leaving our Oklahoma home in the morning for Albuquerque and then Ouray on Sunday. Will be there till the 15th. We have rented a 4 door jeep and will take jeep trails we can handle. We even plan on tent camping a couple of nights. The friend we are going with elk hunts in the area every fall and he and his wife have done the jeep trails twice before so at least we have someone with experience.

Dread the fuel costs but we have had this planned for quite some time. We are not taking our 4700 pound Acadia so that should help with a little mileage.

Again, thanks for the help. I don't think I would have ever gotten 3 flushes at any service facility, at least without paying through the nose.

Jim

One needs to be a chemist to totally understand antifreeze. The FL club has a good article on their web site. There is also a good technical article on Cat's web site. It is part fof their machine fluid recommendations. Cummins does have slightly different requirements. BTW: The color of antifreeze is not necessarily an indication of the type of AF. AS for thermostats: HD diesel engines do not use cheap stats like in a car. They go millions of miles. I just changed the one in my Bluebird and it is 20 years old! If you are using a conventional AF there are 2 things you have to look for: ASTM D4985 is a low silicate AF that can be used in a diesel if you also use the proper SCA. ASTM D 6210 is a fully formulated AF and already has the SCA. Big truck stops, Fleet Pride and any HD truck dealer are good sources for AF. Most NAPA's do not carry the HD stuff. Monaco are the wrong people to ask for any info on your engine and Tranny. For the engine call Cummins. They are the experts and the ones who warranteed your engine.

Further information:
This is lke one big high school science fair. Cummins has very strict requirements on which coolant you may use. My Cummins owners manual for the ISL is not current. My unit is an 08 but the manual is for an 06 . I tried to get onto Quickserve but you must pay $50.00 a year I dont know how one of the posters accessd that web site?? According to my owners manual from Cummins you can only use the following OAT AF's:
Fleetguard, Shell Rotella, Texaco Chevron and their private labels. These met Cummins 14603. The non Cummins products listed above also require the addition of a liquid silicate fluid. Is this confusing or what??

JDT,
Glad to hear you got your coolant changeover done. I know its a relief when your finished with it. I felt pretty good about it myself. I will pick up the final charge concentrate tomorrow morning and add a little over a gallon and I will be satisfied its right.
Sounds like we both got about the same amount of fluid back in the system.
We were in Quary last September for about 10 days so I know your going to love it.
We stayed at the KOA just North of town. We had a bear in the campground that decided he liked the taste of the bedroom roadside slide seal. Guess he liked what we were cooking inside so he tried to get in. Chewed the end off the seal.
We decided to try our liberty on some of the easier trails at first but then progressed to some harder ones. On one of them we ended up going up over Imogene pass down into Telluride and it was a blast. A couple times especially near the pass we got into some snow and I was getting a little worried cause I had to take a few runs at it but I gained a new respect for the 4 x4 capabilities of the liberty after that.
I'm sure your friends will know many of the trails so that will help. I'm envious right now because you are in store for some absolutely beautiful scenery.
If your coming North on Colorado highway 550 between Silverton and Quray be a little careful. On the North side of Red Mtn. pass it gets kind of curvey and narrow in some places without guard rails. My wife said she would have had to sit on the couch had we come in that way in the motorhome.
Have a exciting and safe trip.
Letsgoagain

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Letsgoagain,

moisheh,
Did you enter your engine serial number on the Cummins quickserve sight?
I actually can get on the sight without putting in my engine serial number but it gives me a lot more specific information when I do put it in. I don't pay a $50.00 dollar fee for the sight either although I understand you get access to a whole lot more information for that money.
Also I'm not sure if Global Final Charge coolant is a private label of one of the coolants you listed but I do know that it does meet the Cummins 14603 standard. I read the same information off of the quickserve site and then researched the final charge coolant. It specifically says on the website and jug of coolant that it meets Cummins 14603. That was one reason I went with it. It is an OAT coolant and its made specifically for heavy duty diesel engine use.

quote:

Originally posted by moisheh:
Further information:
This is lke one big high school science fair. Cummins has very strict requirements on which coolant you may use. My Cummins owners manual for the ISL is not current. My unit is an 08 but the manual is for an 06 . I tried to get onto Quickserve but you must pay $50.00 a year I dont know how one of the posters accessd that web site?? According to my owners manual from Cummins you can only use the following OAT AF's:
Fleetguard, Shell Rotella, Texaco Chevron and their private labels. These met Cummins 14603. The non Cummins products listed above also require the addition of a liquid silicate fluid. Is this confusing or what??

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Letsgoagain,

JDT and Letsgoagain,
Did you guys flush through the overflow tank or did you insert a flush kit on the heater hoses? Thinking a flush kit might save a little time and maybe flush the system better.

mark

letsgoagain:

Thanks: I was able to log on.

quote:

Originally posted by moisheh:
letsgoagain:

Thanks: I was able to log on.

Moisheh,
What did you do to gain access? I can log in but it wont let me go anything, it says I'm not authorized. It says I'm logged in but can't do a thing. What areas can you get to?

mark

Sixpack98,
Sorry for the late response. Been in Florida for a week and returned Tues. night.
I flushed through the coolant overflow tank. Your way might be faster, I don't know with the time it takes to add the flush kit to the hoses. It probably will do a better job though.
Letsgoagain

Sixpack, I flushed through the overflow tank. In response to the question about who makes Final Charge, I think I saw Peak connected to the website, so I assumed Peak is the manufacturer but that could be wrong. The Cummins teck did tell me it had to meet their 14603 requirements, which Final Charge does.

Now for a report on how my 330 Cummins performed with the new anti-freeze. The first leg of the trip we went from our home in eastern Oklahoma to Ouray, Co via Albuquerque, mostly on I40. The temps were in the 90's on the way to Albuquerque and I had to drive 65 mph to keep up with my leadfoot friend and his fifth wheel. Only on occasion would I notice the temp guage going high enough to activate the high speed side of the Horton fan. This included the awful 74 miles from Durango to Ouray with its 3 passes, which, after we got there, were told should not be attempted by a large RV.

On the trip home we went north to Montrose and took US Highway 50 to Pueblo, stayed with it into Kansas and then 54 to Wichita to I35 and home via Tulsa. Same results as above.

Not very scientific but I do think the fan cycled less with this anti-freeze than it did before.

Letsgoagain, the trip was absolutely awesome. I am now a hooked jeeper. We saw things that only those venturing off the main highways get to see. Some were a little scary, like Imogene and Engineer passes, but I got used to it very quickly. Would love to do it again someday.

Jim

The company that makes Final Charge is Old World Industries. They make many different brands of coolant. Newmar has been using this coolant for the last several years. I did my change via the expansion/overflow tank.

Okay....You guys got me motivated and i changed mine today. On the ISL there is an engine petcock on the driver's side just in front of the oil filter. It points toward the ground. It made life easier. I drained from the radiator and engine petcock at the same time.

I flushed via the coolant tank. Drained once and filled and then drained again. I filled the second time and left both petcocoks open with the engine running.

On the last drain, I measured what I got out. I was able to drain 8.25 gallons. When I filled it with the Final Charge, I was able to put 8 gallons back in. When I find the concentrate, I'll drain off two gallons and add two gallons of the concentrate.

I ran into problems with the Onan generator. I thought it would be soooo easy with the screw on drain cap. I removed the cap and drained the coolant. I opened the filler cap and added water. I couldn't get the water to flush through and the generator kept shutting off becaue it was getting hot. Started to panic! I removed the top cover plate which gave complete access to the cooling system. I removed the thermostat and found that it was open. I removed the drain cap again and was able to flush everything out. I added the new coolant back through the thermostat opening and poured directly into the radiator.

I fired up the generator and checked for leaks. I buttoned everything up and filled the reservoir. It ran great.....thank goodness....had that sinking feeling for a bit.