I am by no means a supporter of gov regulation, but as more and more families hit the road in overloaded and unsafe tow combinations, it puts everyone on the road in danger. I would only support license endorsments for the purpose of educating people, not regulating them. This has been done in the boating industry requiring operators to have some type of safe boating course. Why not for RVers.

Safety courses may be a way to go. However most safety courses are somehow tied to insurance rate discounts. I believe some are even partially funded by the insurance industry. I dont believe the insurance industry sees the RV community as a high risk group, so they probably would not back or discount safety course participants. Some safety courses I can think of are *driver safety courses, motorcycle safety courses, ATV safety courses, hunter safety courses, safe boater courses. Only the hunter safety course is required here in Texas before one can purchase a hunting license. Most of the others have something to do with discounting insurance rates or in the case of driver safety courses they both can be tied to insurance rate discounts and ticket dismissal. Until there is either an incentive or a requirement for RV safety courses, there will be very few participants.

Something that might go far is a requirement that dealers be truthfull and not make the general statement that "Oh your vehicle can pull that trailer". They could be given the option of not commenting, or of telling the truth. But they need to be held accountable and fined for outright lies. Also mayby a dealer requirement on any unit over a given weight (say 5000 pounds), a weight ticket must be produced for that individual unit instead of the phrase "model such and such weighs such and such with standard equipement". Possibly do this also with 3/4 ton and bigger trucks.

Maybe they could use the phrase "Weight Awareness Courses" and get corporate sponsorship from WeightWatchers.

No matter how much you preach, some just do not listen. We all make choices. Some believe towing an 18,500# 5th Wheel with a pickup is just fine and to be honest, it's done every day. Some have to learn the hard way when someone makes a mistake, be it you or the other guy. Being overloaded is a legal issue and can cost an individual millions of dollars in both a legal & civil actions. Insurance will only cover part, the rest is on the owner/driver. By looking at my signature, you will see I made my decision. Currently, I only tow 12K, and while the dually will tow it easily, emergency stopping is another issue althgether. We live with the results of our decisions and now the dually is no longer the toter, just a cool daily driver.

Ray

quote:

Originally posted by Wrenchtraveller:
Hi Don, my intension was not to zero in on SRW pickup owners. I own a SRW pickup myself and prefer it to a duallie in looks and size so I was careful to research my Fifth wheel specs.
My 05 F350 SRW has an 11200 pound GVWR. Previous to 05 Fords, 9900 was the max GVWR on SRW.
This increase in payload keeps my 06 Montana within my specs. My model is the 2955RL which is
33 feet long and puts 2600 pounds on the pin when loaded up the way I travel. I used to own an 04 F350 with a 9900 pound GVWR and the way I load my trailer would overload that truck.
Everything you put in the cab or the box is part of your payload and so is your pin weight.
Some people may tow larger trailers than mine with a SRW and stay within their specs.I could not because my model has most of the storage up front like most fivers. My washer/dryer is over the pin so for me if I want a larger Montana, I will have to go to a duallie. On the Montana owners site, we had very esteemed members towing over 1000 pounds overweight which is completely their own private matter but they would try and convince newbies this was perfectly acceptable.
That is when it became a public matter to myself and others. On the MOC website, when you disagree with esteemed members, you are simply booted off as I was. Love and harmony is a wonderful thing but when it promotes ignorance it loses it's charm.Take care and Happy travels.

Wrenchtraveller what hardware changes did Ford make from 04 to 05 allow for the increase in the GVWR. My 2001 SRW has a GRAWR of 6850lbs which is the same as the 2008 F350 SRW GRAWR rating with 18inch tires. I will be towing close to my GVWR limit of 9900lbs. but other than a increase in weight rating for marketing reasons I have not found a difference in the trucks hardware. Now if you have the 20inch wheel package they do have a higher tire 3700lbs+ vs 3400lb+ weight rating.

Well I have read the specs on the 04 and 05 Superduties and the 05's weigh about 300 pounds more than an identical model 04. I do have a 7000 pound rear axle and a 5000 pound front axle on my 05 F350 and my 18" tires are rated at 3640
The 05's have bigger brakes and that is why the 16" wheels won't fit.
The most radical thing that Ford did to GVWR in 05 is they went model and engine specific to help the extra weight of 4x4 and the PSD not effect payload as much as previous years.
For example my 4x4 CC LB V10 has an 11200 GVWR,
the same model as mine with a PSD has an 11400 GVWR. This helps offset the extra 500 pounds pounds that a PSD adds. The V10 still nets a 300 pound larger payload. How Ford did this, I really don't know and I wonder how soon before the other brands follow suit.
This might be no more than cooking the books so to speak, but it does give the 05 and newer Fords a higher legal payload than older Fords and other brands.

I am often refered to as a weight policeman - and I enjoy it. I have towed combinations that are right at or slightly overweight and have not enjoyed it at all. I have run across one RV dealer who asked the question of what TV I had - then proceeded to talk me out of the TT I wanted to buy and into a smaller and lighter model - he was also an RVer and felt that he was obligated to not sell an overweight combo.

I think the real problem is that RV mfgs want to show how lightweight their units are and TV mfgs want to brag about how much they can tow/haul. I know that the SAE is finally starting to standardize how HP and Torque are measured - and are beginning to witness the testing. Perhaps there needs to be a standard towing test for Tow Vehicles - something realistic. On the other side the RV mfgs need to give a more realistic weight - I know that the mandated "weight sticker" is a start - but it really needs to have the full weight of that TT on it, plus mfgs need to be more up front with how the weights are derived, and what is and is not included - things like batteries and LPG can easily add 100lbs to the tounge and they are not included in the tounge weight on any brochure. While most TTs have water tanks in the frame - some still put them under the sofa or bed in the front of the unit - again adding to tounge wt.

For the newbies that do research, sites like this are a great way for them to get the real picture of matching RV to TV. What they do with it is another matter.

To quote a line from Forest Gump - "Stupid is as stupid does"

Gentlemen and Ladies - -
The bottom line is liability - - if you overload your truck, trailer or motorhome , doesn't matter what, wether it is GVW, GVAW, carrying capicaty, or tire capicty, your sticking your neck out 100 miles. A friends wife was hit by an overloaded 1/2 ton pickup/camper combination, with boat in tow near home and he ran over to my house and asked me to take him to the scene. We arrived as the ambulance was loading his badley injured wife, so he asked me to handle the wreck and he went with his wife. First thing I did was request that the trooper impound the wreckage as it looked like a fatality might be involve (friends wife) trooper said he'd never done that before but OK, he'd aks the wrecke to secure the mess. As it turned out the camper along with the boat trailer were way over the GCW of the pickup (tire popped causing loss of control) Driver was charged in criminal court for everthing from overweight to wreckless driving and anything else the trooper could think of. A year later in civil court the pick up owner was held responsible for negelent operation of a motor vehicle, but $3.5 MM award will not do anything for my buddies wife, she was in a vegitative state 4 years ago when they finally pulled the plug, and remains there today

So you guys can argue all you want, but if you have one tire overloaded, a smart lawyer can clean your clock, and have you begging for handouts in a bread line, and you insurance company won't be of much help.

Sorry for the long post - - but I've seen first hand what happens when somebody "Just trys to get by with the truck they have"

Denny

Riverdog - -
Your comments are right on the money!

Denny

This is a good read.

I have a 2005, F150, 4x2, 3.73 gears, Supercrew, Shortbed. It is rated to tow 9,500 trailer and 9,300 fifth wheel. We now tow a 2000 coachman 252RKS on the scale it weights 4,800 lite, 6,280 after loaded ready to go camping. That is a payload of 1,480lb not including my wife and dog. This was done on a certified truck scale at work.

We are now looking at new trailers including light weight 5th wheels. and we will not look at anything that has a GVWR rating over what the truck is rated for. then I have to look at the cargo capacity to make sure that I don't overload the rig.

Last Weekend at the Blue Hen RV Show in Dover DE. I talked to a manufacture rep and he tried to tell me that the only number I had to worry about was the light weight of the trailer. And all the other numbers did not matter as long as it was under your TV rating. He spent 20 ninutes telling me and another older couple that his trailer that had a light weight of 8,864lb was ok for a F150. And the outer couple's truck was a 4x4 with 3.55 gears and that lowered the towing to 8,300.

I know that I will be putting my truck just below what it is rated for. And I would feel better with a F250 or a F350 but it is not in the cards right now.

But how can that guy sleep at night the older couple looked like that were going to buy it.

A big part of the problem is the consumers and salesmen.

1. The consumer knows nothing about towing. All the want to do is camp.

2. Salesmen know less AND lie.

This results in overloaded campers all over the roads.

For example: I had a 2006 F250 6.0 with a GVWR of 9800lbs. I was looking at fivers and I knew the ones we were looking at would put us AT or over the GVWR, but kept looking while I was lemon lawing my 2006.

In every lot I pulled into they asked what kind of truck. Every salesmen said I had enough truck to pull anything on their lot and each time I laughed and said not legally or without any exposure to liability.

I contacted my insurance company and asked them which weight, axle or GVWR. After going through many people I got to their RV guy. He said if I exceeded ANY of the listings for the truck I would be at risk.

Okay, fine.. Asked Ford what happens if I exceed the GVWR.. Ford said they "MAY" void my warranty on repairs.

Asked my trooper buddies as they deal with weight far more then I ever did. Their answer, DEPENDS... Some states us GVWR others use Axles weights for a variety of laws.

Quite a mess for some newbies to go through. The easy answer for me is GVWR and GVCWR.. If I don't exceed the GVWR then I don't exceed the axle or tire limits.

When my lemon law went through I simply replaced the F250 truck with a F350 which has a GVWR of 11,400lbs, which doesn't expose me to liabilities of being overloaded and voided warranties. Makes me sleep better at night.