Don,

Wrenchtraveler cited the example of a 15,000 lb 5th wheel. Of course, many are heavier. A 15,000 5th wheel would have a pin weight of around 3,000 lbs. In your case, 7,266 lbs curb weight + 3,000 lbs pin weight equals 10,266 lbs GVW, 366 lbs over your truck's 9,900 lb GVWR, yet probably well within your truck's "manufacturer's trailer tow rating". That's precisely the trap that the SRW owner can walk into when looking at HEAVY 5th wheels.

Rusty

quote:

Originally posted by allendp:
I only have one question for wrenchtraveller - why did you zero in on SRW owners. I don't think everyone pulling a 5ver needs to be driving a dually. My truck's GVWR is 9900 lbs. Loaded with fuel, hitch and 2 people it weighed 7266 on the scales giving me a payload of 2634. The tongue weight of my 5ver is 1980 so I feel very comfortable towing my rig with my SRW truck.

Don,
Please I mean no disrespect, but I would like to know how did you arrive at the pin weight of 1980 pounds? Was this taken from the manufacturers brochure, or did you take it to the scales? Reason I ask, is that my Cedar Creek had an advertised pin weight of 1780 pounds and in real life it scales at closer to 3000 pounds when the trailer is loaded and ready to camp.

quote:

Originally posted by RustyJC:
I believe we still owe it to the "newbies" who are trying to size a truck and trailer combo to walk them through the process. At the end of the day, however, you're right - everyone will make his/her own decision and build the justification required to validate that decision in his/her own mind.

Rusty

I think Rusty hit the nail on the head. [LIST]

Inform the public not to believe the salesman when they say "x unit can be towed with x vehicle.

Show them how to find all the weights for the towing unit and the towed unit.

Explain the dry weight and loaded weight concept.

Explain how to use scales to find their own answers.

In the end, let them choose their own path.

Do all the above with no flames or ill will.

Robert & Nancy
with "Murphy the EOG"
KE5NWT
02 F350 7.3 liter PSD CREW CAB DRW 4x4 Lariat auto 4.10 LS Arizona Beige/Black RBW L'il Rocker hitch
02 Holiday Rambler Alumascape 30 SKS 5ver

quote:

Originally posted by allendp:
I only have one question for wrenchtraveller - why did you zero in on SRW owners. I don't think everyone pulling a 5ver needs to be driving a dually. My truck's GVWR is 9900 lbs. Loaded with fuel, hitch and 2 people it weighed 7266 on the scales giving me a payload of 2634. The tongue weight of my 5ver is 1980 so I feel very comfortable towing my rig with my SRW truck.

Hi Don, my intension was not to zero in on SRW pickup owners. I own a SRW pickup myself and prefer it to a duallie in looks and size so I was careful to research my Fifth wheel specs.
My 05 F350 SRW has an 11200 pound GVWR. Previous to 05 Fords, 9900 was the max GVWR on SRW.
This increase in payload keeps my 06 Montana within my specs. My model is the 2955RL which is
33 feet long and puts 2600 pounds on the pin when loaded up the way I travel. I used to own an 04 F350 with a 9900 pound GVWR and the way I load my trailer would overload that truck.
Everything you put in the cab or the box is part of your payload and so is your pin weight.
Some people may tow larger trailers than mine with a SRW and stay within their specs.I could not because my model has most of the storage up front like most fivers. My washer/dryer is over the pin so for me if I want a larger Montana, I will have to go to a duallie. On the Montana owners site, we had very esteemed members towing over 1000 pounds overweight which is completely their own private matter but they would try and convince newbies this was perfectly acceptable.
That is when it became a public matter to myself and others. On the MOC website, when you disagree with esteemed members, you are simply booted off as I was. Love and harmony is a wonderful thing but when it promotes ignorance it loses it's charm.Take care and Happy travels.

[/QUOTE]
...... we had very esteemed members towing over 1000 pounds overweight which is completely their own private matter ......[/QUOTE]

Wrenchtraveller - I pretty much agree with your message, however the quote above I don't think is "their own private matter". IMHO when someone is overloaded it potentially puts all the rest of us on the road at risk.

I wonder what % of the RVers on the road actually know and understand their actual weight limits, and stay within these limits?

I'm going to guess that the % is actually pretty low -- something like 10% is my guess.

John

I am guessing that number is probably lower than 10%. Go to the local campgrounds on the weekend and take a walk and count the number rig setups that are over weight. How many newbie families are walking into the RV showroom or rv shows driving the daily driver SUV and want to see what all the hype about RV'ing is. The salesman tells them no problem towing that 30' TT with mid size SUV. In all the excitememnt they pay the bill and off they go having no idea what a weight rating is with their brand new TT. I thnk the solution is, just my humble opinion, a special endorsment on your license for towing that would require some type of short educational class and a written exam to ensure anyone towing knows the basics of how to handle the rig and about safety such as weight ratings. Lets face it, with more and more everyday families taking to the road in RV's, the risks are multiplying.

If you want to get a war going, just mention a special RV endorsement on the drivers license. Immediately you get everyone screaming about big government and big brother watching.

But with the large number of RV hitting the road and the lack of knowledge of pulling any sort of trailer, I like the idea of a written test to check the minimum level of knowledge on towing ratings, safety and procedures.

But the best approach for now is to educate the new folks and hopefully they will make a better decision.

Ken

quote:

Originally posted by TXiceman:
If you want to get a war going, just mention a special RV endorsement on the drivers license. Immediately you get everyone screaming about big government and big brother watching.

But with the large number of RV hitting the road and the lack of knowledge of pulling any sort of trailer, I like the idea of a written test to check the minimum level of knowledge on towing ratings, safety and procedures.

But the best approach for now is to educate the new folks and hopefully they will make a better decision.

Ken

While I don't agree that we should have a special endorsement to our licenses, I do think that some how people need to be educated or regulated as to what they can and cannot tow with any and all vehicles. Maybe before you get the tags for a RV you must show proof of what you will be towing it with, or maybe the trailers tags should be tied to the TV somehow?

In British Columbia, Canada you do need an RV endorsement if your trailer is over 10000 pounds.
No RV salesman will tell you this and the Government booklet that the written part of the test is based on, really tries and explains GVWR and GCWR to help you choose a TV. I will give an example of why some people need to educate themselves on TVs. Some people still go back to the 40s when a half ton had a 1000 pound payload.
Now, they buy a 1/2 ton truck with a 2000 pound payload and in their opinion, their truck is really a 1 ton. I know a guy with a Tundra who thought that and he had 18" wheels, same as the F350 so he feels his truck is as capable as a Ford F350 and is planning on buying a Fiver.
Another misconception is that after market suspension parts can increase your GVWR.
Even the genius lawyers on Boston Legal can not change a truck's GVWR. It is a permanent part of a truck and yes the new parts can make the truck handle better, but the legal payload remains unchanged. I really did want to borrow a Ford Ranger when I took delivery of my 06 Montana because we always drove our Honda Accord while we were shopping and not once did the RV salesman ask me what my TV was.
In a perfect world, the first question an RV salesperson should ask is what kind of TV you own. They only want to sell you the RV and hope the TV you own will get the unit off the lot.
The RV makers are just as guilty of promoting overweight towing and I have seen RV brochures with the statement............designed for today's half tons. This was not a tent trailer brochure but a full size Fifth wheel brochure and IMHO was absolutely false advertising.
Sorry to ramble on but I love talking RVs.